Open Hearing: Nomination of Susan Gordon, Robert Storch, and Isabel Patelunas

[Senate Hearing 115-100] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] S. Hrg. 115-100 OPEN HEARING ON THE NOMINATION OF SUSAN GORDON TO BE PRINCIPAL DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE AT THE OFFICE OF THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE PRECEDED BY ROBERT P. STORCH TO BE INSPECTOR GENERAL OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY, AND ISABEL PATELUNAS TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR INTELLIGENCE AND ANALYSIS AT THE DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ WEDNESDAY, JULY 19, 2017 __________ Printed for the use of the Select Committee on Intelligence [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov __________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 26-418PDF WASHINGTON : 2017 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Publishing Office, http://bookstore.gpo.gov. For more information, contact the GPO Customer Contact Center, U.S. Government Publishing Office. Phone 202-512-1800, or 866-512-1800 (toll-free). E-mail, gpo@custhelp.com. SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE [Established by S. Res. 400, 94th Cong., 2d Sess.] RICHARD BURR, North Carolina, Chairman MARK R. WARNER, Virginia, Vice Chairman JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California MARCO RUBIO, Florida RON WYDEN, Oregon SUSAN COLLINS, Maine MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico ROY BLUNT, Missouri ANGUS KING, Maine JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia TOM COTTON, Arkansas KAMALA HARRIS, California JOHN CORNYN, Texas MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky, Ex Officio CHARLES SCHUMER, New York, Ex Officio JOHN McCAIN, Arizona, Ex Officio JACK REED, Rhode Island, Ex Officio ---------- Chris Joyner, Staff Director Michael Casey, Minority Staff Director Kelsey Stroud Bailey, Chief Clerk CONTENTS ---------- JULY 19, 2017 OPENING STATEMENTS Burr, Hon. Richard, Chairman, a U.S. Senator from North Carolina. 1 Warner, Hon. Mark R., Vice Chairman, a U.S. Senator from Virginia 3 WITNESSES Storch, Robert P., Nominated to be Inspector General of the National Security Agency....................................... 5 Prepared statement........................................... 8 Patelunas, Isabel, Nominated to be Assistant Secretary of Treasury for Intelligence and Analysis......................... 5 Prepared statement........................................... 15 Gordon, Susan M., Nominated to be Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence.......................................... 31 Prepared statement........................................... 35 SUPPLEMENTAL MATERIAL Cipher Brief article dated July 19, 2017, titled ``The Great Expectations for Susan M. Gordon''............................. 28 Questionnaires for Completion by Presidential Nominees........... 46 Prehearing Questions and Responses............................... 96 Questions for the Record......................................... 140 OPEN HEARING ON THE NOMINATION OF SUSAN GORDON TO BE PRINCIPAL DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE AT THE OFFICE OF THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE PRECEDED BY ROBERT P. STORCH TO BE INSPECTOR GENERAL OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY, AND ISABEL PATELUNAS TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR INTELLIGENCE AND ANALYSIS AT THE DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY ---------- WEDNESDAY, JULY 19, 2017 U.S. Senate, Select Committee on Intelligence, Washington, DC. The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:06 a.m. in Room SH-216, Hart Senate Office Building, Hon. Richard Burr (Chairman of the Committee) presiding. Committee Members Present: Senators Burr, Warner, Feinstein, Wyden, Heinrich, King, and Harris. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD BURR, CHAIRMAN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH CAROLINA Chairman Burr. I'd like to call this confirmation hearing to order. I understand the Vice Chairman is in the building, so he should be here before I finish my opening statement. I'd like to welcome all members. And I know this is out of the ordinary to do these in the morning. But the schedule right now doesn't give us the luxury of taking an afternoon as we get ready for our authorization bill. So I'd like to welcome our witnesses today: Robert Storch, President Trump's nominee to be the next Inspector General of the National Security Agency; and Isabel Patelunas, the President's nominee to be the next Assistant Secretary of Intelligence and Analysis at the Department of Treasury. Robert and Isabel, congratulations to both of you on your nominations. I'd like start, though, by recognizing the families that you've brought here with you today. Robert, I understand your wife, Sara, is here and your two children Charlotte and Hannah. Would you--guys, thank you for your commitment to your dad and to your mother, because she has traveled extensively with him and is a partner both in life and in work, as I understand. Sara, you must be a strong woman. And Isabel, I believe you brought your husband, Paul, here as well as your sons Brian and Brandon, Correct? Good. Just Brian. Well, we welcome both of you. Both of you have served your country with distinction in your previous posts, primarily Department of Justice for you, Robert, and CIA for you, Isabel. And we appreciate your continued willingness to serve. Our goal in conducting this hearing is to enable the Committee to consider Mr. Storch and Ms. Patelunas' qualifications and to allow a thoughtful deliberation by our members. Robert already has provided substantive written responses to 77 questions presented by the Committee and its members, while Isabel has answered 63. Today, of course, the members will be able to ask additional questions and to hear firsthand from Mr. Storch and Ms. Patelunas in this open session. Mr. Storch graduated magna cum laude from Harvard College in 1982 and earned his J.D. from Columbia Law School in 1985. He began his legal career as a clerk for U.S. District Judge William Keller in Los Angeles, California. Following his clerkship, Mr. Storch worked at Covington and Burling before joining the Department of Justice, where he worked for over 24 years. Mr. Storch was an assistant U.S. attorney for over 17 years, working on both criminal and civil cases. Robert held a variety of leadership roles in the U.S. Attorney's Office, including anti-terrorism coordinator, deputy criminal chief, counsel to the United States attorney appellate chief, senior litigation counsel, and civil rights and hate crime coordinator. In 2012, Mr. Storch joined the Office of Inspector General at the Department of Justice, where he served as counselor to the IG, the OIG whistleblower ombudsman, and acting deputy IG. In 2015, Mr. Storch was selected to serve as DOJ's deputy inspector general. And I think you told me when we met that you kept the ombud--you kept the whistleblower thing with you. We thank you for that. Ms. Patelunas graduated from the University of Notre Dame in 1989, received her master's in international relations from the University of Maryland in 1987. Ms. Patelunas began her career at the CIA in 1989 and is a member of the Senior Intelligence Service at the CIA, where she served in a variety of leadership roles, including deputy director of CIA's Office of Middle East and North Africa Analysis and director of advanced analysis training program. Ms. Patelunas also worked in the National Counterproliferation Center and the weapons intelligence nonproliferation--Weapons Intelligence, Nonproliferation, and Arms Control offices. Ms. Patelunas also completed a rotation at the ODNI, serving as the director of the President's daily brief staff. Isabel currently is the chair of the CIA's Publications Review Board. Robert, independent and empowered inspector generals are critical to the integrity and the efficient management of the intelligence community. I would also note that this is Robert's third nomination to a position in under a year, an indication of not only bipartisan support, but a commitment to the post as well. And, Isabel, as you and I have discussed, you've been asked to lead the Treasury Department's intelligence arm at a time of profound threat and challenge. As both of you are aware, we're facing threats from state and non-state actors alike and are engaged in a robust debate at home on the scope and scale of intelligence collection and what authorities are right, appropriate and lawful. I expect both of you to support the government's mission to protect the Nation in the face of these threats, while maintaining an unwavering respect for the rule of law. I have complete trust that both of you will lead the community with integrity and will ensure that the intelligence enterprise operates lawfully, ethically, and morally. As I've mentioned to other nominees during their nomination hearings, I can assure you that this Committee will continue to faithfully follow its charter and conduct vigorous and real- time oversight over the intelligence community, its operations, and its activities. We will ask difficult and probing questions of you and your staff, and we will expect honest, complete, and timely responses. I look forward to supporting your nominations and ensuring their consideration without delay. I want to thank you again for being here, for your years of service to the country, and I look forward to your testimony. I'd like to recognize the Vice Chairman for any comments he might have. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARK R. WARNER, A U.S. SENATOR FROM VIRGINIA Vice Chairman Warner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And welcome, Mr. Storch and Ms. Patelunas, and congratulations on your nominations. Mr. Storch, you have served as Deputy Inspector General of the Department of Justice, so I know you understand well the functions of the Inspector General. But if you are confirmed as the Inspector General of the National Security Agency, you'll be charged with overseeing a large and complex and necessarily secretive organization. Because of the nature of the work of the NSA, you will have a higher level of responsibility to ensure that the agency's programs and activities are effective, appropriate, and comport with U.S. law and regulations. In today's hearing, I would like to hear reassurances that you will take this duty on with the gravity and sense of purpose it requires. We all know the NSA is home to some of the world's greatest minds in the field of cryptology. They continue to improve our ability to understand the plans and intentions of our adversaries in order to protect and defend this Nation. As they harness the power of new technology and data analytics, we must be careful to ensure that the clearly defined line between our adversaries and our citizens is not crossed. Part of your charge will be to confirm that it is not. I also very much appreciate your background as related to whistleblower protections. I know the Chairman's already mentioned this. You stated that one of your bedrock principles is, quote, ``whistleblowers perform a valuable service to the agency and to the public,'' unquote. I agree with that sentiment, and I'm not sure that we have given them adequate protections, in the IC that they deserve. Today, I'll ask you about some of the proposals this Committee is considering to enhance those protections, to ensure that anyone that does come forward through approved processes will not suffer reprisals as a result. Mr. Storch, I look forward to today's discussion and working with you, if confirmed. Ms. Patelunas, your experience at the Central Intelligence Agency will serve well if confirmed to the position of Undersecretary of Treasury for Intelligence and Analysis. Your 28-year career at the CIA is impressive and includes a wide variety of important positions and responsibilities. If confirmed as Undersecretary, you will have significant opportunities to continue your contributions to our Nation's security. This morning, I'd like to talk more about your background in threat finance and financial intelligence. The past decade has seen a dramatic increase in the leveraging of financial tools to counter threats. That includes following the money to counter terrorist groups, as well as the use of sanctions to influence other Nations' behaviors. At the same time, our adversaries are constantly developing new and innovative ways to evade our detection. It is vital that the United States stay one step ahead of our enemies in this regard. I'll expect to hear your plans for ensuring that we maintain our competitive edge when it comes to collecting, analyzing, and responding to matters of financial intelligence. Additionally, this Committee is deeply engaged with its investigation into Russian meddling in our 2016 elections. Treasury has a role in supporting this effort. This morning, I want to hear assurances from you that you will fully support any request this Committee makes of the Office of Intelligence and Analysis. Ms. Patelunas, Mr. Storch, I note that you are both, as is the nominee that we'll hear from in the next panel, Sue Gordon, career public servants. You are both highly qualified for the positions to which you have been nominated. Today, perhaps more so than in the past, I believe that it is especially important to make a point of saying thank you to the men and women of the intelligence community for the work that they do each and every day to keep our Nation safe. We seldom hear about your successes or your sacrifices, but members of this Committee see your dedication and hard work. So I want to thank both of you for accepting these new opportunities to serve our country. But I also have something to ask in return. I ask that you commit today that you will always speak truth to power by giving your best honest assessment and speaking that truth and telling it, telling it like it is to those in power, whether they want to hear it or not. I'll ask for your assurances that you will cooperate fully and unreservedly with any requests from this Committee by providing documents, e-mails, cables and other materials as requested. And I'll ask for your promise that, if confirmed, you will faithfully represent the professional men and women of the intelligence community with dedication and integrity every day that you're charged. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to the hearing. Chairman Burr. Thank you, Vice Chairman. Mr. Storch, would you stand, please? Would you raise your right hand? Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. Storch. I do. Chairman Burr. Please be seated. Ms. Patelunas, would you please stand and raise your right hand? Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Ms. Patelunas. I do. Chairman Burr. Please be seated. TESTIMONY OF ROBERT P. STORCH, NOMINATED TO BE INSPECTOR GENERAL OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY Chairman Burr. To you, Mr. Storch--and then I'll come to you, Mrs. Patelunas--I'll ask you to answer five standard questions that the Committee poses to each nominee who appears before us. They just simply require a yes or no answer. One, do you agree to appear before the Committee, here and in other venues when invited? Mr. Storch. Yes, sir. Chairman Burr. If confirmed, do you agree to send officials from your office to appear before the Committee and designated staff when invited? Mr. Storch. Yes, sir. Chairman Burr. Do you agree to provide documents or other materials requested by the Committee in order for it to carry out its oversight and legislative responsibilities? Mr. Storch. Yes, sir. Chairman Burr. Will you both ensure that your office and your staff provide such materials to the Committee when requested? Mr. Storch. Yes, sir. Chairman Burr. Do you agree to inform and fully brief, to the fullest extent possible, all members of this Committee of intelligence activities and covert action, rather than only the Chairman and the Vice Chairman? Mr. Storch. Yes, sir. Chairman Burr. Thank you. TESTIMONY OF ISABEL PATELUNAS, NOMINATED TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF TREASURY FOR INTELLIGENCE AND ANALYSIS Chairman Burr. Ms. Patelunas, the same questions. Do you agree to appear before the Committee, here or in other venues, when invited? Ms. Patelunas. Yes, sir, I do. Chairman Burr. If confirmed, do you agree to send officials from your office to appear before the Committee and designated staff when invited? Ms. Patelunas. Yes, sir. Chairman Burr. Do you agree to provide documents or any other materials requested by the Committee in order to carry out its oversight and legislative responsibilities? Ms. Patelunas. Yes, sir. Chairman Burr. Will you both ensure that your office and your staff--will you ensure that your office and your staff provide such materials to the Committee when requested? Ms. Patelunas. Yes, sir. Chairman Burr. Do you agree to inform and fully brief to the fullest extent possible all members of the Committee of the intelligence activities and covert action, rather than just the Chair and Vice Chair? Ms. Patelunas. Yes, sir, I do. Chairman Burr. With that, I thank you, and we'll proceed to opening statement. Mr. Storch, you are recognized for your statement. Mr. Storch. Thank you, sir. Chairman Burr, Vice Chairman Warner, and members of the Committee: Thank you for inviting me to appear before you today regarding my nomination to be the Inspector General at the National Security Agency. I believe that this position presents an exciting opportunity to further independent oversight at a critically important government agency. I would like to take the opportunity to recognize my family and others who have come to be with me today: my brilliant and wonderful wife of more than 25 years, Sara Lord, and our children, Charlotte and Hannah, who, as I always tell them, are the center of the universe. I would like to thank my other family, colleagues, and friends for being here with me today. I want to express my great appreciation to my Inspector General, Michael Horowitz. I've had the privilege of working side by side with him, and I learn from him on a daily basis. He provides, I believe, a tremendous example, both as to how to conduct vigorous, independent oversight and how an IG should be responsive to Congress. I also want to thank you, Chairman Burr, for taking the time out of your busy schedule to meet with me yesterday. And, Vice Chairman Warner, I greatly appreciate the efforts of your staff to schedule a meeting as well. I'm sorry there wasn't time, given the prompt scheduling of the hearing--which, let me quickly say, I appreciate very much--for me to meet in advance of the hearing with you and with the other members of the Committee. But if confirmed, I would welcome the opportunity to meet with each of you and your staffs on a regular basis. I believe strongly in the importance of Congressional oversight, which is particularly critical in an area where so much of what happens occurs outside the public eye. As this Committee well knows, in 2014 Congress determined that the NSA IG should be a presidentially appointed, Senate- confirmed position, clearly reflecting the importance of independent oversight and responsiveness to Congress. I hope that, if confirmed, my background would position me well to work with the staff of the OIG to meet the challenges of this position. As detailed in my prehearing submissions, I spent some two dozen years working as a Federal prosecutor at two United States attorney's offices and at the DOJ here in Washington. This taught me a great deal about how to gather and consider evidence, about following the evidence wherever it leads, and about pursuing allegations and outcomes vigorously but fairly and in the interest of justice. Immediately following the September 11 attacks, I was selected as my district's initial Anti-Terrorism Coordinator, working closely with criminal and intelligence components of the FBI and other agencies in helping to organize and direct our antiterrorism efforts and standing up our first Anti- Terrorism Task Force. In 2012, my wife and I decided to move back to Washington and I accepted a position in the front office at the OIG. One of the things I came to understand early on is that OIGs are part of their agencies, but they're also separate, our independent oversight role requiring that we maintain the distance necessary for our work. I've been involved in reviewing a number of reports, examining the exercise of national security authorities by the FBI and DOJ as well as their interaction with other parts of the intelligence community. I also have participated in the deputies' meetings of the IC IG forum and attended its conferences. If confirmed, I hope that my experiences and perspective as a prosecutor and at the OIG would be helpful in working with the personnel of the NSA OIG to carry out the significant responsibilities entrusted to it by the Congress. If confirmed, I would anticipate meeting regularly with personnel from across the OIG to facilitate open communications and obtain their perspectives. One area that I know to be of importance for all OIGs is furthering whistleblower rights and protections. As was mentioned, at DOJ we've developed a robust program that's built on one bedrock principle: Whistleblowers perform a valuable public service to the agency and the public when they come forward with what they reasonably believe to be evidence of wrongdoing, and they never should suffer reprisal for doing so. I founded and still serve as chair of the CIGIE working group in this area and have been pleased to work with the Congress on it, including helping to organize a program with the bipartisan Senate Whistleblower Protection Caucus, at which we were grateful to hear from Senator Grassley and you, Senator Wyden. If confirmed, I will do everything in my power to further whistleblower rights and protections at the NSA. In closing, I cannot think of an agency with a more important mission than the NSA and I have tremendous respect for the dedicated men and women who are critical to its success. I would be privileged to have the opportunity to lead the NSA OIG to further the integrity and efficiency of the agency's operations, which, as the NSA's name makes clear, are essential to our national security. Thank you and I look forward to your questions. [The prepared statement of Mr. Storch follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Burr. Thank you, Mr. Storch. Ms. Patelunas, floor is yours. Ms. Patelunas. Thank you, Chairman Burr, Vice Chairman Warner and members of the Committee, for allowing me to appear before you as the nominee for Assistant Secretary of Treasury for Intelligence and Analysis. I also appreciate the opportunity to have met with several of you earlier this week. I am honored to have been nominated for this position by President Trump, and with the support of Secretary Mnuchin, Director of National Intelligence Coats, and Undersecretary of Terrorism Finance and Intelligence Mandelker. None of the steps in the journey to this Committee room would have been possible without my family. They have been my unfailing supporters throughout my career. First, my husband, Paul, of three decades has supported me and has eaten many meals alone during my 28 years at CIA. He has been my steadfast partner in raising my two wonderful sons, Brian and Brandon. Those three men have been my cheerleaders and my conscience, the reason I work so hard to protect our great Nation, and the ones who have helped me to balance being both a hard-charging public servant and a sports and band mom. My mom, Carol Keenan, was a role model as a working mother and ensured that I always took care of myself. My father, Thomas Keenan, started me on the road to public service. Although he lost a hard-fought battle to cancer over a decade ago, I feel his strong presence and his commitment to his country, first as an Air Force staff sergeant in Korea, followed by a 45-year career as a beloved high school social studies teacher. He is indeed smiling today. My brothers, Kevin and Sean, have always supported me personally, professionally. Sean's wonderful wife Beth and their three children, Ryan, Victoria, and Andrew, are here as well today. My sister Chris, also a teacher, and her wonderful husband John and four children were unable to attend today. I also want to thank friends and coworkers who have been so supportive during my career. The Keenan and Patelunas families have a profound love of God, country, and family, and have never been embarrassed by our patriotism and dedication to public service. This started with my grandfather, who served in both the U.S. Army and Navy and as a Philadelphia policeman. My father, uncles, father-in- law, brother Sean, and my nephew Danny all served in the military. My mother, father, sister, and brother spent many years in public education. If confirmed as assistant secretary, I will continue to strive to be an efficient and effective public servant, to use taxpayer dollars wisely, to leave a lasting positive impact on those whom I serve and those who I serve with, to have a bias and a passion for action and getting the mission done. And finally, I will be devoted to developing a strong and expert workforce and to taking actions to leave that job to my successor in even better shape than I received it. Twenty eight years as a CIA analyst and manager have prepared me well to lead OIA. And if confirmed, I'm looking forward to taking on that important mission, one in which we cannot fail: stemming the flow of funding to those who wish to do our Nation harm and remaining vigilant to threats against our financial infrastructure. The threats are many, but the dedicated women and men of OIA are more than up to the challenge. OIA, because of its position within Treasury and access to expertise and information, has been a leader in threat finance issues. I feel that the office's work is becoming even more important as the U.S. Government is directing more efforts to take financial action against those who wish to do us harm. OIA has other important missions that I look forward to leading. It is very serious about information sharing and focuses on relationship building, partnership and integration. OIA has an important mission to ensure that its people, infrastructure and data are secure and protected from insider threats. If confirmed, I will use my expertise, leadership and strong analytic tradecraft to continue to position the Office of Intelligence and Analysis to stem current threats, as well as to position it well to take on future threats. I am committed to being an effective public servant, having a bias for collaborative action, working with colleagues throughout the United States Government, including this Committee, and ultimately leaving OIA even stronger than it is today. Thank you again for your time, and I look forward to answering your questions. [The prepared statement of Ms. Patelunas follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Burr. Thank you to both of you for your statements. Before I recognize myself for questions, let me inform the members that our plan is to have the Committee vote on these nominations on Tuesday, July 25th. Also, if any members wish to submit questions for the record, please do so by the close of business today. With that, Senators will be recognized for up to five minutes by seniority. Ms. Patelunas, we live in an innovative world where nefarious state and non-state actors continue to identify new and discreet ways to finance illegitimate and illicit activities. How's the Treasury's Office of Intelligence and Analysis poised to assess cash-free financial networks like Bitcoin and other web-based currencies? Ms. Patelunas. Sir, thank you for that question, and we discussed this a little bit yesterday. The good news is that there is very deep expertise in the Office of Intelligence and Analysis. Because their portfolios are niche analysis, they really are able to become deep experts in a wide variety of financial intelligence, both gathering and analysis, and they have a strong program of mentoring, of training, and they go out on rotations to further their knowledge. So in many of my discussions with the officers and the leadership over in OIA, I feel very strongly that we are well-positioned to go after a wide variety of actors, including crypto-financial issues. Chairman Burr. Great, thank you. Mr. Storch, the Inspector General at NSA is going to be responsible for overseeing a large organization at multiple physical locations, probably as challenging as any agency that's out there. How do you plan to ensure that all NSA employees and contractors are fully aware of the function of the NSA OIG, regardless of their physical location? Mr. Storch. Thank you very much, Chairman Burr. I very much appreciate the question. You know, it obviously is incredibly important that an OIG get out word to all of the employees regarding what the OIG does and how to provide information. I think that's particularly important in a world like that of the NSA. And so I can just tell you, what we've done at the Department of Justice is we've employed virtually every strategy available to us, honestly. We've done videos. We've done brochures, flyers, put things out on our Internet. We've done programs within the agency. We've worked with the agency to have material posted in buildings so that there are flyers on how to provide information to the OIG and also related to what to do if there's reprisal for doing that or for providing any whistleblower information. And so we've even gone as far as to use social media, and we have a Twitter account and we've tweeted out information on how to provide information. So, you know, no OIG can function without information and it's important that people within an agency like the NSA understand that there are avenues for them to come forward when they see something they think is wrong; and that they're taken seriously; those complaints are reviewed thoroughly; and that people get back to them, to the extent they can; and also that they don't suffer reprisal. So I think you employ a multi-tiered strategy to try to get out the word so that people understand what the OIG does, and you do it any way you can. Chairman Burr. What do see as your biggest challenge of being the NSA Inspector General? Mr. Storch. Thank you very much for the question. It's something I've thought a lot about, and we chatted a little about it yesterday. You know, I think that--I think there are a few. One is obviously the transition to being a presidentially appointed, Senate-confirmed IG. Clearly, that reflects Congress's intent that there be aggressive, appropriate, independent oversight and responsiveness to Congress in performing that. That's something we certainly do at the Department of Justice and certainly, if confirmed, something I would intend to do in my position at the NSA. So that'll be a change, but one that I'm confident, working with the good folks at the OIG, that we'll be able to tackle. Another one that we talked about yesterday is the pace of change and dealing with that. Particularly in a place like the NSA, where technology--where things are changing on a constant basis, it's really important that an OIG be agile, be nimble, and provide its reviews in a prompt fashion. Frankly, this is a challenge we face at our OIG and I think at all OIGs. I thought about it some since we chatted yesterday. There's a tension, I think, between OIGs being thorough in their work and being authoritative, but not taking so long to do it that it no longer is relevant or impactful. And so I think that challenge is particularly great at an agency like the NSA, which is in the business of dealing with technology and change and things that are moving constantly. And so that's something we'll have to work at. I'm sure they're working at it now, and hopefully I'll be able to aid in that process. And finally, you've mentioned it, I've mentioned it: whistleblowers. I think they're fundamental to the whole OIG system. You know, since I've come over to the OIG my impression is really that the agencies we serve are really just too big and their programs are just too varied for oversight to really work effectively without people who are at the front lines feeling comfortable coming forward with information. That doesn't mean they're always right, but we want to make sure that they can come forward, that they have means to come forward, and that they know that that's going to be taken seriously. I think that's a challenge for all OIGs, is getting that word out and not just having words and training, but actually doing it in action and showing to whistleblowers that we mean what we say, that we take the allegations seriously, and that we're going to pursue them appropriately. So those are all challenges that I think we would face. Hopefully I'll be well-positioned to help achieve success with them. Chairman Burr. Thank you very much. Vice Chairman. Vice Chairman Warner. Ms. Patelunas, first, we--as I'm sure you're aware, this Committee is deeply involved in the Russia investigation. I just want to reiterate, should you be confirmed, that we would want your cooperation as this Committee continues to pursue all activities related to Russia's 2016 intervention in our presidential elections, and that will mean we would be working closely with your office. Will you commit to continue to work with this Committee on that investigation? Ms. Patelunas. I certainly will, sir. Vice Chairman Warner. You've got an extraordinarily impressive background, 28 years at the CIA, and I see you've had background doing the PDB, deputy director of the Middle East Analysis Office, time at the National Counterproliferation Center. Yet you don't have formal background in finance or financial threats, financial crimes. Do you want to speak about your background, how it might be suited for this particular assignment? Ms. Patelunas. So while I don't have a background in terrorism threat financing, I spent about the first ten years of my career doing nonproliferation work and looking at North Korea, Russia, Iran, a variety of actors. And so a lot of what we did, while we looked at, you know, building of weapon systems, we also had to follow the money and look at how the weapons were built. So we did spend a lot of time supporting policymakers as they were developing sanctions packages and looking for other opportunities to stem the flow of money in the proliferation arena. So that's where my background is in that. Vice Chairman Warner. We do think following the money in a variety of these areas---- Ms. Patelunas. Right. Vice Chairman Warner [continuing]. Is going to be very important. Mr. Storch, I appreciate your comments about whistleblowers. I share your value in that role. We have seen in the IC sometimes efforts where a whistleblower, rather than being celebrated, actually ends up with demotions or a black mark on their record. One of the tools that have been used throughout the rest of the Federal Government are the stay authority, which gives that whistleblower some protection during the period of the investigation. The IC is one area where we don't have that stay authority. I know Senator Collins and I are working on potentially changing that. Do you think that stay authority that is granted to whistleblowers in other parts of the Federal Government ought to be granted to members of the IC? Mr. Storch. Thank you very much for the question, Vice Chairman Warner. You know, as was mentioned from the beginning, we really have put a great emphasis on whistleblower issues at DOJ OIG, and after becoming deputy, in discussions with our IG, we decided I would retain the ombudsperson role because of the importance of that work to what we do. We don't have stay authority at DOJ OIG. That doesn't mean it's not a good idea. It's something that, honestly, I haven't dealt with personally. OSC, obviously, has that ability in some circumstances, in Title 5 cases. So what I would appreciate the opportunity to do, if confirmed, is to have the opportunity to consult with people in the IC regarding how stay authority would play out and what the different equities are there that might be present. You know, one of the things I always want to be careful of in my time in the OIG is not expressing opinions without having the opportunity to really review the situation and provide an authoritative answer. So I very much appreciate the question. And what I would pledge to do, if confirmed, is to look further into it, and would really appreciate the opportunity, and welcome it, to work with you and the other members of the Committee to discuss it. Vice Chairman Warner. Well, it's my initial impression that it is a tool that we ought to grant to the IC, but I'd be anxious to get your reflections when you're--once you get settled into this job. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Burr. Senator Feinstein. Senator Feinstein. Thank you very much. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. You both seem to be very well-qualified for your positions. I look forward to supporting them. Mr. Storch, I'd like to ask you a question. You look like a pretty tough guy. And---- Mr. Storch. My wife might disagree, but---- Senator Feinstein [continuing]. I want to express a concern I have about NSA. Beginning with Mr. Snowden, we have had three major thefts of--people walking out with classified material. I have spoken to the heads of the agency on a number of occasions about it. I think some things have been done, but not adequately. This comes down to contractors, and the three big thefts are done--were performed by contractors. I'd like to ask that you take a look at that situation, evaluate the security at the agency and the ability of people to walk in and out who are contractors with classified materials. Would I have your agreement to do so? Mr. Storch. Absolutely, Senator. Really, the points you make are very well-taken. Obviously, it's a great concern whenever there are--whether it's contractors or others, where there's information that's not properly secured. I can't, frankly, imagine a place where that would be a greater concern than the NSA. And so, you know, I absolutely would pledge to you that that is something that we would explore, and happy to engage with you and the other members of the Committee on that. Senator Feinstein. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Burr. Senator Wyden. Senator Wyden. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you both for your professionalism. I've got a lot of ground to cover in five minutes, so if you all could be brief, that'd be great. Mr. Storch, to begin with you, Senator Grassley and I are co-chairs of the Whistleblower Caucus. And how important, in your view, is it that whistleblower protections apply to contractors? Mr. Storch. Thank you very much for the question, Senator Wyden. I mentioned--I recalled, we had the event with the bipartisan Senate Whistleblower Caucus, and we very much appreciated your and Senator Grassley's speaking at it. You know, I think it's important that people throughout the government, whether they be employees or whether they be employed as contractors hired by the government, feel comfortable coming forward with information. And honestly, analytically it's difficult to see why there's a difference in terms of the public benefit of coming forward. What may different somewhat--may be different somewhat, is because of the different relationships, what the appropriate remedies are in different situations. You know, on the Title 5 side at DOJ, as you know well, we have the NDAA, recently expanded, and some very expansive protection for contractors. On the intel side, I know PPD-19, part B, regarding security clearances, has been applied to contractors. But there are other places where I understand the protections are not as great. So it's a long answer. You asked me to be brief. The answer is, I recognize the importance of it. Regarding the particular protections, that's something that I would have to look at and will be happy to do so. Senator Wyden. You'll hear from me again on this topic. I think it's got to be a priority. Ms. Patelunas, you and I talked yesterday. You've been nominated for a position that stands at the center of the government's effort to understand Russian corruption, the way they move funds illicitly, and its use of shell companies and other forms of money laundering. Will you make this a top priority? Ms. Patelunas. As we discussed yesterday, sir, I will certainly go back, I will work with the women and men of OIA and do our best. And then, I actually welcome the opportunity to come back and discuss it with you. Shell companies are concerning. Again, they're--we need to make sure that things that we can't see readily by nefarious actors are not impacting our national security interests. Senator Wyden. I still want to know from you before we vote that this is going to be a top priority, number one. Number two, will you make it a top priority, even if the intelligence leads in the direction of Russian ties to the President's business, family or campaign? Ms. Patelunas. Sir, I will commit to making it a top priority. And, as an intelligence official, we always believe in unbiased intelligence and speaking truth to power. So I will take the intelligence where it leads, sir. Senator Wyden. Even if it leads in the direction of Russian ties where I mentioned, the President's businesses, family or campaign? I think you gave a good answer. I just want to make sure we nail it down. Ms. Patelunas. I will take the intelligence wherever it goes. Again---- Senator Wyden. Okay. Ms. Patelunas [continuing]. Unbiased analysis is the only standard by which all intelligence officers---- Senator Wyden. How are you going to go about bringing together foreign intelligence from the community, the intelligence community, with financial intelligence from other parts of the Treasury Department? The reason that that's so important is it lets us connect the dots here, which is absolutely key to following the money and really understanding how Russia and other foreign money- laundering corrupts our country. So tell me, if you would, how you're going to bring together the foreign intelligence from the IC with financial intelligence from other parts of the Treasury Department? Ms. Patelunas. So the beauty of Treasury being embedded--or OIA being embedded in Treasury is that it does give us access to a lot of data, and we all fall under the Terrorism and Finance Intelligence Office under Undersecretary Mandelker, so that gives us access. The financial intelligence community is a very strong community. I've talked to a number of them in preparation for this hearing, and they work well together as a team to ensure that we are putting all of the resources we have available, and then thinking very smartly about how we pursue different leads. So I again look forward to the challenge and to working with you. Senator Wyden. How do you intend to work with our allies in bringing together the fullest possible picture of how Russian governments go about undermining allies' democracy? Ms. Patelunas. Well, it's my understanding that there are a lot of well-established ties already. So I look forward to working with allies and those who have--I mean, that's the national security. That's how we work in making sure that we have access to the appropriate data. Senator Wyden. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Patelunas. I look forward to that. Chairman Burr. Senator Harris. Senator Harris. Thank you. Mr. Storch, as a prosecutor it is often the case that we will respond after something has happened, and then that's when our job kicks in. Will you talk with me a bit about how you would divide your priorities in this role, if confirmed, as it relates to prevention versus detection versus responding to a whistleblower in cases that are brought to your attention? Mr. Storch. Yes, of course. Thank you for the question, Senator. You know, it really is a great point. You know, as prosecutors you're coming in, you're coming in after the fact, you're looking at a set of evidence, and then you're making determinations as to whether to bring charges and how to pursue them and how they should be resolved. At the OIG, we do that sort of work, obviously, but we also have a responsibility to get out information within the agency. So for instance, we do things like fraud awareness briefings at DOJ and things like that to get out information that can help the agency in a preventative fashion. You have to be careful, obviously, because we're not part of the agency management. One of the things I've learned after all those years as a prosecutor is that, at the OIG we refer to the Department in the third person. We talk about ``it is doing that'' or ``they are doing that,'' because, even though I still am proud to work for the Department of Justice, I have a different, independent role. Having said that, there are ways to get out information so that the agency can see what's coming and perhaps, you know, take steps to address it. One other thing we do that I'll mention, which is sort of a hybrid, is in the course of reviews, if we come upon information that we think the agency needs to address immediately, we can issue management advisory memoranda. And as you I'm sure know, under the IG Empowerment Act now, if we make recommendations, within three days those actually are made public. And I think that's a very important tool and something that I've seen us using increasingly during my time at the DOJ OIG, because it provides us with a more time-sensitive way to get information to the agency. So a lot of the work is still reactive, but there are, I think, ways to get out information to people about what we're finding so that they can take action in a preventative way. Senator Harris. Great. I appreciate that. Mr. Storch. Yes, ma'am. Senator Harris. Thank you. And, Ms. Patelunas, you have an incredible amount of experience in your background, but I don't see a lot in threat finance. So can you talk a bit about how you will kind of get up to speed on that, and in particular as it relates to, for example, North Korea and its ballistic missile program and what we can do to detect and figure out where the money is coming from and stem the flow as it relates to sanctions and other methods? Ms. Patelunas. Well, one of the positions that wasn't mentioned in my broad resume was that I was the chief of the missile and space group, and we spent an awful lot of time on North Korea. So there are two aspects to it. The first is, of course, the systems development, but the second and maybe more important part was watching how the money flowed and all of the different secondary and tertiary actors they used in enabling that program. It was very challenging work. It took a lot of painstaking efforts to look at letters of credit and who those actors were. So again, it's a long part of my history in the nonproliferation world. Following the money is very important and I've spent a lot of time doing that. Now, on the terrorism side, I do have some work to do and I will look forward to lots of briefings that will be queued up if I'm confirmed. Senator Harris. And I have no doubt you will be a fast learner. Ms. Patelunas. Thank you. Senator Harris. And then, Leslie Ireland was dual-hatted and had dual responsibilities in this position and at ODNI. Ms. Patelunas. Correct. Senator Harris. What is your perspective on what this will be going forward if confirmed? Do you expect that you're going to have both responsibilities? Or are they--are we going to bring in someone else? Ms. Patelunas. So I've talked to the ODNI about it. They are in the middle of reviewing all of their positions, including NIM positions, and they're really looking at savings. I think they've had some feedback that maybe there's some opportunities for leveraging some smaller staffs. And so they're not going to make any decisions. They'll talk to me when I get on board, and so we'll see. If the position is still available, I think it's important for Treasury to have a central role in that, but Treasury has a very important and strong role in threat finance and so I am committed to working with ODNI in whatever solutions they come up with. Senator Harris. And will you commit to reporting back to this Committee if this becomes---- Ms. Patelunas. Absolutely. Senator Harris [continuing]. Too much---- Ms. Patelunas. Either way, I will. Yes. Senator Harris [continuing]. That the other position be filled by a separate leader? Ms. Patelunas. Correct. Senator Harris. Okay. Thank you. I have nothing else. Chairman Burr. Thank you, Senator Harris. Before I dismiss you, Robert, I've got one more question. Can you ever envision any work that the Inspector General would do at NSA that wasn't relevant to the oversight responsibilities of this Committee? [Pause.] Mr. Storch. Thank you very much for the question, Chairman Burr. I'm pausing because it's a difficult question. I think that, to the extent I understand the scope of the NSA IG's work, that it would be relevant to this Committee. I don't want to rule out, honestly, that there might be some review that would be conducted or some particular issue that would perhaps fall more closely under the jurisdiction of another of the committees. But I think as a general matter that's right. And it's certainly something I would be happy to discuss with you further regarding any specific matter should I be confirmed. I will tell you, and I mean this sincerely, that I will commit to this Committee that I will be responsive and engage with you, with the Vice Chairman, with the other members, on an ongoing basis so that you know appropriately what it is the OIG is doing and so that we can hear from you what it is you think we should be looking at. And so I think that much I can say definitively. With regard to the jurisdiction, I just--I think that's right, but it's something I'd want to think about a little more, and I'd be happy to continue that discussion. Chairman Burr. I appreciate that, and I hope you'll think about that as you conduct your business, and I'm appreciative of the offer. And I will reiterate what I think I said to you in my office and, Isabel, what I said to you. The Committee takes oversight extremely--as an extremely important part of our function. And oversight works much better when people on an ongoing basis share with us what it is they're working on, come to us early in areas that look like they're going to be concerns and brief the Committee as early as possible, so that it's not an end-of-the-process dump where all the questions deal with, ``why didn't you come in?'' So I encourage you, even though, as, Isabel, I shared with you, that we probably have the least amount of contact with Treasury Intelligence and Analysis of anybody within the community that we deal with, that doesn't have to be the way going forward. And, as the Vice Chairman expressed, more and more the financial records that transfer around the world are of greater and greater importance to us, from a standpoint of connecting the dots and looking at the threats and understanding the scope of it. By the same standpoint, Robert, on your side, it's the individuals that search out to find that information. And our confidence in you that we're living within the letter of the law and that we're not crossing the line is absolutely crucial to us. So, to both of you, we thank you for your years of service. We thank you in advance for the years that you're going to give us in this new capacity. I thank your families for their buy-in and for their willingness to support you. I now dismiss the first panel and call up the second panel. [Recess from 9:55 a.m. to 9:58 a.m.] Chairman Burr. I'd like to call us back into session for the second panel. Sue, welcome. Sue Gordon is President Trump's nominee to be the next Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence. Sue, congratulations on your nomination. I'd like to take this moment to recognize your family in attendance today, many of whom have served or continue to serve this country: your father, Vice Admiral Robert ``Bob'' Monroe-- Admiral, welcome--your mother, Charlotte, welcome; your husband, Jim, a career intelligence officer; your son, Jay, his wife Bethany, both assistant district attorneys. And I hear you have two captains from the Marine Corps with you, your daughter Casey and her husband Eric. Wave. Trust me; in North Carolina we love Marines. [Laughter.] Let me thank all of you for your service to the country. I also want to especially thank your sister Nancy for coming today, because I understand she was a cheerleader at my alma mater, Wake Forest, when I played football there. Some of my colleagues don't believe that that's the case, but---- Vice Chairman Warner. You played football? Chairman Burr. I also want to have your teammates from the Duke basketball team, Barbara Krause and Margo Walsh--I welcome them. I'm also pleased when the ACC is so well represented. Our goal in conducting this hearing is to enable the Committee to consider Ms. Gordon's qualifications and to allow for thoughtful deliberation by our members. She already has provided substantive written response to questions presented by the Committee and its members. Today, of course, members will be able to ask additional questions and hear from Ms. Gordon in open session. Sue Gordon has served our Nation as a member of the intelligence community for more than 30 years. I'd like to note that before Sue launched her career she wisely sought wisdom in North Carolina, where she earned her bachelor of science degree from Duke University. She reminded me that she could equip me with a darker blue tie today. Had I actually been thinking, there's no way I would've worn this one today. [Laughter.] After joining the CIA's Directorate of Intelligence in 1980, Sue worked her way up the ranks and ultimately served in various management positions before becoming leader in the CIA's Directorate of Science and Technology. In 1998, Ms. Gordon became Special Assistant to the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency and was responsible for designing and implementing In-Q-Tel, a private nonprofit company whose primary purpose is to deliver innovative technology solutions for the intelligence community. Sue rounded out her career at the CIA by serving as the Director of the Directorate of Support and the Director of Information Operations Center and finally as CIA's director of senior--Director's Senior Advisor on Cyber. In 2015, Ms. Gordon became the Deputy Director of National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency. In that role, Sue has ably assisted the director in fulfilling the NGA's mission to provide timely, relevant and accurate and actionable geospatial intelligence to the intelligence community, the Department of Defense, the President, and this Committee. Sue, you've been asked to help lead the intelligence community at a time of profound threat and challenge. As I said during Director Coats's nomination hearing, we're facing threats from state and non-state actors alike and are engaged in a robust debate at home on the scope and the scale of intelligence objectives and collection and what authorities are right and appropriate and lawful. I expect you to be a forceful advocate for the intelligence community in those discussions, while maintaining an unwavering respect for the rule of law. And I have no question you will. I have complete trust that you'll lead the community with integrity and will ensure that the intelligence enterprise operates lawfully, ethically, and morally. Sue, our Committee has had the opportunity to work with you many times during your career, and I believe your breadth of service in so many areas of the intelligence community, as well as your commitment to serving our Nation, make you a natural fit to help Director Coats lead our intelligence community. As I told Dan Coats, I can assure you that this Committee will continue to faithfully follow its charter and conduct vigorous and real-time oversight of the intelligence community, its operations and its activities. We'll ask difficult and probing questions to you and your staff, and we'll expect honest, complete and timely responses. I look forward to supporting your nomination. I look forward to having you as a partner with Director Coats, and I will ensure to you that we are going to consider you without delay. I want to thank you again for being here, for your years of service, and to your family who has committed as well to that service. I now recognize the Vice Chairman. Vice Chairman Warner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's also my great honor to welcome Sue, someone who's helped educate me as I have learned this--learned about the intelligence community. Matter of fact, Mr. Chairman, I would like to enter into the record a publication called The Cipher Brief, the title of which is ``The Great Expectations for Susan M. Gordon,'' where she is called--``Gordon might just be the woman for the job.'' She's ``said to be widely liked by members of both political parties, deeply respected,'' ``straight shooter,'' and a whole series of other wonderful compliments. So if you screw up, this is going to come back and bite you. [Laughter.] Chairman Burr. So ordered. [The material referred to follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Vice Chairman Warner. But I'd like to enter that into the record. And I just want to reiterate what the Chairman said. I think you're going to be a great partner with Dan Coats. We've talked about IC ITE and how important trying to get that implemented, that process implemented will be. We've talked about acquisitions, particularly in terms of overhead, and very much appreciate the fresh approach you brought at NGA; and now, in this new, enhanced role, how we will try to bring that same kind of forward-leaning acquisition process to NRO and the balance of the community. I also think one of the things that we're going to need to work through is the security clearance process, how we move people from the community in and out as they move from public sector to private sector and back, back, back and forth. Again, I can't think of a better person to partner with Dan Coats, and look forward very much to supporting your nomination. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Burr. Thank you, Vice Chairman. Sue, would you please stand? Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Ms. Gordon. I do. Chairman Burr. Please be seated. TESTIMONY OF SUSAN M. GORDON, NOMINATED TO BE PRINCIPAL DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE Chairman Burr. Sue, before we move to your statement, I'd like to ask you five standard questions the Committee poses to each nominee who appears before us. They require a simple yes or no answer for the record. Do you agree to appear before the Committee here or in other venues when invited? Ms. Gordon. Yes. Chairman Burr. If confirmed--would you cut on your microphone, just to make sure he picks it up. If confirmed, do you agree to send officials from your office to appear before the Committee and designated staff when invited? Ms. Gordon. Yes. Chairman Burr. Do you agree to provide documents or any other materials requested by the Committee for it to carry out its oversight and legislative responsibilities? Ms. Gordon. Yes. Chairman Burr. Will you ensure that your office and your staff provide such materials to the Committee when requested? Ms. Gordon. Yes. Chairman Burr. Do you agree to inform and fully brief to the fullest extent possible all members of the Committee of intelligence activities and covert action, rather than just the members--the Chairman and the Vice Chairman? Ms. Gordon. Yes, I will. Chairman Burr. Thank you very much. We'll now proceed to your opening statement. The floor is yours. Ms. Gordon. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Vice Chairman, members of the Committee. I am honored to appear before you as the nominee for the Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence. I'd like to begin by thanking the President for nominating me to this position and Director Coats for his faith in my experience and my passion to help him lead the intelligence community. I love America. I love being here today as we do the Nation's work, as our founders envisioned. I never thought I'd say that I would enjoy being here, testifying in front of this Committee, to anticipate your gentle, gentle questioning---- [Laughter.] But I do. As a career intelligence officer, to lead the women and men of the world's finest intelligence enterprise in service of the Nation at a time of challenge is both humbling and exciting. We are who we began as. Today, I'm so pleased to be joined by my family, some by birth, some by choice, who helped bring me to this day: My mom and dad, who instilled in me a love of country, the drive to always do my very best, and the responsibility to work for something bigger than myself; My big brother and sister, who allowed me to live through childhood and who keep me in line to this day; My husband, who has been the love of my life and my best friend for actually today 37 years. And the fact that he is also a career intelligence professional means we not only get to share our life, but our life's work. My remarkable children and their spouses, as you mentioned, two assistant district attorneys from Houston and two Marine pilots currently stationed in Southern California, who have also chosen to serve their term for their country; My Duke basketball teammates, who taught me how to be depended upon and to learn how to depend on others, and to win with respect and to lose with dignity; And finally, my intelligence community colleagues, who are really the heroes of my story. It is their work that brings me here. Thank you all for standing with me today, as you always have. These are interesting times, as you mentioned, Mr. Chairman, as the Nation faces a wide variety of security challenges, whether it's the cyber threat faced by an ever- expanding digital environment, the threat posed by nation- states like Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran, the threat of terrorist groups who continue to threaten the United States and her interests, or simply the pace of change that demands we move ever faster. The intelligence community is challenged every day to deliver and at its best we provide decision-makers with the advantage to meet these and all threats and identify the opportunities to act before events dictate. I'm incredibly proud to be considered for this position at exactly this moment. I feel that perhaps my broad experience, my love of a good challenge and my reputation for finding new solutions, my penchant for rolling up my sleeves and getting to work, and my understanding that the only way we get things done is through our people and with them will be useful. It may seem surprising to some that a career Central Intelligence Agency officer would extol the virtues of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. But I believe it performs a vital role in ensuring that the Nation always has access to the best intelligence, delivered at exactly the right time. The intelligence community best serves the Nation when we work together, and leveraging the work of the community and integrating it at its highest level is exactly where the ODNI is meant to perform. When Director Coats appeared before you he described the role of the DNI as a head coach, and I think that's an apt analogy. So let me briefly share my view of the role of the assistant coach, the principal deputy, and to offer some perspective on what I would bring to the job if confirmed. The first role is integration, work well begun by my predecessor, but no less a focus today. It is necessary, but not sufficient, that each organization delivers excellence in its responsibility and craft. But we must also be able to share that work appropriately, in a seamless, timely fashion, so that the community and consequently the Nation, benefits from the collective. My more than two decades of service at the CIA across various disciplines--analysis, technology, operations and support--and my last two years as deputy director of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency have allowed me to see the strengths of various disciplines and organizations and the power of using them together. I understand different risk equations. I see how tactical military requirements both differ from and complement strategic intelligence, and I know how to find common ways forward. My second role is to support innovation. The community not only has delivered great capability to the Nation, but what it brings to bear today is the best I've ever seen. And yet it is not enough. We cannot stand still, lest we lose our advantage; and we must improve at an increasing rate, because the world is turning ever faster and global connectedness is transforming our advantage from being grounded simply in technology, but more in its clever use. If confirmed, I will help create the impetus and the room for this to happen, and I will look forward to this Committee helping in this necessary quest. Somewhere along the way I've become comfortable with leading change, sometimes big change, like asking a group of private citizens to form a company like In-Q-Tel; sometimes smaller change, like changing the support model of how we provide facilities, finance, and security worldwide so it can be more effectively and efficiently delivered; and sometimes simply changing perspective that allows geospatial intelligence to both benefit from and provide benefit to work going on in the open. I know that if you focus on maintaining relevance rather than simply preserving the status quo, you can always find your way. The third role and my favorite is leading the women and men of the intelligence community in creating the environment in which they can thrive. I've had the joy of leading thousands of incredible intelligence professionals, from those leading operations to those inventing our future to those who support mission execution. Our people are our greatest asset, our base of talent, and the real answer to what we need. Our future is bright because more and more, better and better, continue to arrive at our door and ask to serve. If I'm confirmed as the PDDNI, I intend to be their champion, ensuring they have the opportunities, tools and support they need to continue the great work of this Nation. And I will advance diversity and inclusion, not simply because it is decent, but because I know that, in order for us to deliver our best, we must create an environment where everyone can bring their best, truest selves to the task at hand. I've been an LGBTQ ally and champion for years and the experience has let me see the magic that happens when people of all races, religions, sexual orientation and experiences receive our support. In closing, I'd like to thank the Committee again for your consideration of my nomination. If confirmed, I intend to work with all of you with clarity, candor and energy to make sure that the IC has the support it needs to tackle whatever the opposing teams bring our way; that the ODNI is focused only on its primary mission and we deliver on that mission effectively and efficiently; and that the Congress has the information needed to conduct necessary oversight responsibilities. I'm proud to be here, to represent the women and men of the intelligence community and to work alongside Director Coats to lead us. This is a humbling experience and I'm grateful for the opportunity, and I look forward to your questions. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Ms. Gordon follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Vice Chairman Warner [presiding]. I believe Senator King will go first. Senator King. I appreciate it. Perhaps you could ask the IC if they could design a way we could do our hearings here without conflicts. Both Senator Heinrich and I have bills before another Committee that we have to go and---- Ms. Gordon. Then I will be clear and direct. Senator King. Thank you. I appreciate that. First, I just want to emphasize, number one, how pleased I am that you're undertaking this position, given your history and background. And I think, as you testified, you come at a particularly important moment. The threats are varied and vast, complex. You're joining Director Coats, who all of us know well, and who is extremely able and thoughtful, but does not have the deep background in the IC that you have. And I think you'll make an extraordinary team. My one question of concern is at the beginning of the new Administration there was a lot of talk about perhaps abolishing the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. A fellow named Steve Feinberg was assigned to look into it. So my first question is, how do you feel as an intelligence professional about the role of this office? And, secondly, have you met with Mr. Feinberg? Has he--have you had any exchanges with him? Do you know whether he's met with Mr. Coats? Where does that question stand? So first question is your views on the role of this, not your position necessarily, but the ODNI generally? And then, secondly, where this analysis stands. Ms. Gordon. Thank you, Senator King, for your question. I see the role of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence pretty simply, as I stated. It's to make sure that we always deliver the best intelligence that all the members of the community have to offer at the right time, unbiased, brought together at the moment of decision so that we can make it. Senator King. Given the fact that there are 16 agencies, do you think it's necessary to have such an institution like the ODNI, which was created as I understand it after September 11th, because of the problem of lack of communication between the agencies? Ms. Gordon. As a CIA officer, I think, when it was formed I couldn't imagine why we needed something. Heck, we were the Central Intelligence Agency; how could you need anything more than that? That was formed, interestingly, with kind of the same premise of bringing other intelligence together. As I look at it now, the integrative functions that the ODNI provides, particularly over time, have been remarkable in bringing us together in ways that we couldn't have. And I'll just cite one example of--the FBI at the same table, from an intelligence perspective, has allowed us to tackle some of our most difficult threats because we have the mechanisms to bring them together. DHS similarly. As we look at cyber threats, if we aren't partners with those organizations as well and have the ability to have them in the same room--but you need an organization to drive this to happen. And you don't want different types of intelligence to be subordinate to any one opinion of what the right thing is. And I think that is the right, proper, just role. And then there are things that we do to ensure that that happens. What I think everyone has been concerned about is, have we grown too big? Do you over time suck up too many other responsibilities, exceed your brief? Director Coats is committed to looking at it. I think he has suggested to me that that will be a special opportunity I have, to lead that look. But do I believe we need it in order to make sure that we can integrate the best we have and deliver it, rather than putting a bunch of data on people's desks--but rather, give the best chance? I think so. To your second question, sir, about any presidential review that might or might not happen, I don't believe that that has taken shape yet. I'm a career intelligence officer. I believe that scrutiny is a good thing. If that were to come to bear---- Senator King. That's what you do--that's what you do for a living. Ms. Gordon. It is, right. And you have to be comfortable with it. It's not always pleasant, but it is what makes us better, whether it is program reviews or audit or IG inspectors, Congressional oversight, or just questioning that the American people have of us. Senator King. You haven't met with Mr. Feinberg? Or have you? Ms. Gordon. I have, briefly, before I was nominated, as he was talking to members of the intelligence community. But I don't believe that that has been resolved yet. If it happens, we'll absolutely work with him, because we share a quest. But I don't have any sense of whether or how it will shape. And so any comment I might have would be premature. Senator King. Thank you. Thank you very much, and---- Ms. Gordon. Thank you, Senator. Senator King [continuing]. Thank you again for your willingness to serve. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Burr. Vice Chairman. Vice Chairman Warner. Two or three quick questions. One, you know, obviously this Committee's very engaged and involved in the investigation into Russian meddling in our 2016 elections. Should you be confirmed, we'd want your commitment that you will work with this Committee as we need documents or other information. Ms. Gordon. Director Coats, I think, has been very clear in his support, and I absolutely support that. Vice Chairman Warner. Excellent. One of the areas that we discussed--a little nerdy but terribly important--and that's the IT backbone for the whole intelligence community. IC ITE was something that Director Clapper was a huge advocate of. It's our hope that you'll take on that responsibility and see that mission through to its completion. Comments? Ms. Gordon. Yeah. I don't see how we get to our future if we don't complete the work of IT modernization to make sure we have the infrastructure that allows us to take advantage of technologies that are appearing that are useful, and doing so in a secure, managed fashion across all our organizations. There is nothing diminished about that imperative. I do think that there are--there's work we need to do to increase the rate of adoption, because we have answers we need to provide and partners and customers we need to reach when this is in place. So not only will you have my commitment to continue it, but I will look forward to coming back to this Committee and talk about how we might advance it at even a greater rate. Vice Chairman Warner. Well, this will be the ultimate lay- up question. You---- Ms. Gordon. Yes, Duke women's basketball will win the national championship. [Laughter.] Vice Chairman Warner. My father, who's a UConn women's basketball fan, might disagree. But, obviously you've been a champion at NGA in terms of smaller sats and commercial use. One of the things I want to give public accolades to the Chairman, he's really become a huge believer, particularly as we try to get our requirements done in a much faster way, move in a much more aggressive way. Stephanie O'Sullivan carried on a lot of that champion role when she fulfilled the principal deputy's role. My hope would be that you would continue to be that advocate. Do you want to speak to that briefly? Ms. Gordon. I will. I've gone on the record many times saying that one of our greatest competitors is simply time, and that's because intelligence is about advantage and you just have to keep up to continue to provide advantage. For as great as our intelligence collection capabilities are--and they are stunning, eye-watering, and we deliver great security to this Nation--you just can't stand still. And if you're not excited about what's happening in the private sector and the opportunity that affords for us to not only provide additive capability, but imagine how we can do things differently, you're just not thinking. You will have my commitment to continue to push that, even as we both recognize that the confidence, availability, and reliability of the data that those things connect is always something that we'll have to balance the speed with which we might pursue things. But you and I will be absolutely pushing on that same rope together. Vice Chairman Warner. Well, now that the minority has given you totally lay-up questions, I'll turn the floor back over to the Chairman. [Laughter.] Ms. Gordon. But Wake Forest might do well, too. [Laughter.] Chairman Burr. I've never known Warner to suck up quite as much as he just did. [Laughter.] Sue, you referenced yourself to Dan's assistant coach. Let me just remind you, they don't know anything about college sports in Indiana. [Laughter.] Listen, a few questions: Where do you see the most opportunity to innovate within the intelligence community? Ms. Gordon. One easy answer: This is a data world, not a world of data scarcity, but data abundance. It's what intelligence is. The data that are available just should make us drool with excitement, but only if we can command it in a way that is not the manual processes that have dominated our past. So to me artificial intelligence, automation, augmentation, those things that allow us to look at data and be able to turn it from noise into some signal that then our analysts can look at and advance is probably where, not only is it the greatest opportunity because of what is going on in the private sector for the exact same reason, but also our greatest need. There are just no ways for us to continue to understand all that we have available to us if we don't advance in these technologies. So I think that's really the one. The more surprising answer might be that I think innovation in business processes--the world has turned so much that the ways in which we do things are driven by what we constructed at a time that is some time past. So looking at our business processes, our policies, the way in which we move things, move people, consider security, I think are all the things in which we can innovate in order to achieve the same objective that you already talked about, which is speed and efficiency. So those two areas I think are great, but it's in all. It's in all, and how we think about training our officers and about how we move them, about how we consider classification. This is a great moment, because the need is so sure and the opportunities provided by that which is available should allow us to find some great solution, if we just have the will and time. Chairman Burr. I agree with you, and I think the Committee does, on data. I will share with you one concern that I have. When we came off of September the 11th, the buzzword then was ``analytics.'' We've got to get more analysts. And we created analysts in every inch of the whole of government. And I've questioned for the past number of years whether we've got tremendous duplication. As I look at the ability to manage and utilize big data, I begin to see different streams of funding from different agencies. I think it's important from an ODNI standpoint that, at least through the IC community, that there be a coordinated approach to it where we don't look back in hindsight and say, ``We had different agencies duplicating the work,'' and that that's something that you will take on as a primary role, to make sure that all of the efforts complement themselves. And I know you're--as you leave NGA, you leave at a time where I think there's a proposal on the table for a very unique approach---- Ms. Gordon. Yes. Chairman Burr [continuing]. To leveraging data that is available and open for individuals that need data to build their base, and maybe a trade-off of them sharing their algorithms with NGA. So it's a fascinating approach that I think I want to talk to you offline, not just about that, but how we take In-Q-Tel and is there an additional role for In-Q- Tel to play in the whole of government. And as Mark and I have talked several times, we have no technology clearinghouse within the whole of government. Ms. Gordon. Right. Chairman Burr. Every agency considers that they've got their own IT people to do that. I'm hard-pressed to find anything that government does well, and I'm being serious when I say that, in business practice. Ms. Gordon. If you'll allow, I--that's what I was alluding to in terms of our business processes. I think public-private partnership is something that the intelligence community has done exceptionally well over its history. As a matter of fact, I'm old, so I've seen a lot, and I can tell you I can't think of any of the accomplishments of my career that I have seen that haven't been done without a partner from the private sector. We've done it differently over time. Around World War II we formed FFRDCs, where we brought in talent and held it essentially for government use, in a special place so that it was available to us. In the seventies, it was going to a company and forming Skunk Works, so that we could do something remarkable that then the U.S. government would have unique advantage. In the nineties, with In-Q-Tel, we were like, ``well, that model isn't going to work for the government to hold the innovation.'' And I think we now need to continue to look for ways that we solve the value proposition of both ends in order to advance us. But this moment, because of what is so openly available, we should be able to do it, but I agree with you we should do it in an organized fashion. There are times when a thousand flowers should bloom, when you have great uncertainty. There are other times when you know you need to advance that you should do so in a purposeful fashion and to husband your resources, and I think that's a great example of what the ODNI can provide value for. Chairman Burr. I'm going to approach the conversation on IC ITE a little bit different than Mark did. Ms. Gordon. Okay. Chairman Burr. In our conversation, I told you I was charging you---- Ms. Gordon. Yes. Chairman Burr [continuing]. Personally with making sure that this was implemented and that you shared with us any process hurdles that are in the way or funding limitations, that we could clear the brush to allow this to become reality. So I hold---- Ms. Gordon. I so commit. Chairman Burr [continuing]. I hold you to it. One other area, just for any comments that you might have. The community is plagued with leaks right now. I would say the Committee has had a rash of problems that we haven't experienced in the past. And from a Committee to the IC community, I think the integrity of this Committee's--of how we handle things is absolutely vital to the willingness to share information with us. By the same standpoint, when we see, as Senator Feinstein alluded to in the last panel, three significant breaches from the NSA, that brings great concern and consternation to the Committee, and I know it does to the whole IC community. Do you commit to us, from a standpoint of the ODNI's efforts, to try to get into this leak problem and figure out how we plug this? Ms. Gordon. Senator, I believe that unauthorized disclosures of classified information are always damaging. There are so many processes by which we can serve the American people transparently through oversight that leaks, people deciding to go their own way, are not in this Nation's interests. And we will be a good partner with you on addressing that issue. Chairman Burr. Thank you. I know the Vice Chairman and I would love to get with you at some point, once you've got your sea legs there, to talk about some concepts that we have for the whole of government that minimize the potential for tools that are used today. And I find it odd, but I'm not surprised, that I think this Committee is probably more esteemed in technology, current technology, than any Committee on Capitol Hill, not because we're jurisdictionally there, but because it's that same technology that presents us the greatest threat around the corner. So we've had to--we've had to spend a lot of time learning it. Ms. Gordon. I do think there--I look forward to, when I have my sea legs at the end of next week---- [Laughter.] Coming to see you. But seriously, I think it's a problem, but I think there are a number of things going on that offer great potential, and we've talked about it before. You know, cloud computing is sometimes such a buzzword, but there is great security potential in that advance; continuous evaluation, looking at our employees, looking at some of the insider threat work that's going on. I think there are a number of good things, from technological solutions, to policy solutions, that should give us increasing advantage over this. But I look forward to coming and speaking with you, hearing your ideas and then advancing those. Chairman Burr. Great. Thank you very much. Seeing no additional members that are here to ask you the tough questions that Senator Warner didn't, let me once again-- -- [Laughter.] Ms. Gordon. I'm so disappointed, sir. Chairman Burr [continuing]. Let me once again thank you. I thank your family for their service to the country, and can tell you personally that we are just absolutely thrilled to have you in this new role. It's my expectation that we will move your confirmation as quickly as we possibly can and that Dan will have a committed assistant coach there. This hearing's now adjourned. [Whereupon, at 10:34 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.] Supplemental Material [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [all]

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